if you've read shayna's blog what i'm about to write makes it 10 times more interesting.
the title of this blog is you think you know someone....
so this morning i write a very diplomatic email to susan and shayna, copying in my brother because i thought everything was cool with us - this is just between the girls and i'm playing dad saying "alright, that's enough bickering. now say you're sorry and shake hands." wrongo mongo. because i'm an asshole, here's the emails in their entirety-
-----Original Message-----
From: Susan Dunn [SMTP:susanelizabethdunn@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:02 PM
To: John.Dunn@CNA.com
Subject: Re: Listen up you two
Let me make some things clear. I don't avoid your mother. I respect her.
She has been NOTHING but good to me and I will always owe her for that. She is someone that I do enjoy being around and she and I were so close before Shayna started running interference.
I won't apologize because I don't believe in doing so when it isn't met. I
would 10 times rather someone say "I'm not sorry" than give a false apology.
As far as John and Tim's relationship goes, that's between you two.
However, Tim and I are family first. As you and Shayna enter a life
together, you will realize that there are times when your family (the two of
you) HAS to come before the greater family. It would be great if the needs
and wants of the 2 always meshed but they. Tim comes absolutely 1st in my
life, above and beyond anyone or anything else.
I am not cooled down yet and what you seem to be saying is that I received a
"false" apology from Shayna. I told everyone yesterday at the begining of
the 2nd round that I didn't want to talk about this anymore. I am a person
who needs time and space to cool down. Tim and I know and respect that about each other. Yesterday, no one was willing to respect that I was way too pissed to have that conversation. Call it avoidance, but really it's
recognizing that I am much better off to have that same conversation and
work out my troubles when my head is clear. Sadly everyone was exposed to a side of me that I am not proud of, a side that everyone has.
I am not controlling. I work very hard to respect Tim and his rights to
make his own decisions. That's why he could go to the brewery, why he put
his brother's bachelor party ahead of our already made decisions and why if
he decides to be any part of your wedding--I will find a way to accept it.
I try very hard to control myself but not others. I don't do the girly
manipulations and I don't appreciate being categorized as such. He finished
school because he wanted to be a good father and husband. I never demanded anything of him. I never even said a word when he was kicked out of school.
I try to always support and respect my husband's decision. He is a grown
man and he already has a mother. For me to be his partner and not boss, I
am required NOT to control him.
The only things that I am sorry for are 1) hurting Ruthanne--she didn't
deserve it and shouldn't have been brought into it by anyone, myself
included 2) draging Tim or anyone else into--my problem is with you and
Shayna and should have remainded as such 3) the anger that lead me to my
hostile disposition--I don't take back anything I said, I wish my delivery
would have commanded respect as yelling and crying never does.
As for the current situation, Tim and I are discussing what we think is best
for us. With a child on the way, we are stronger than ever. I am sorry it
came to this. I always tried to support your relationship (with the
expection of the crazy weekend when I was pregnant and didn't know it and
well, completely out of control). I have loved watching the 2 of you and
yet Shayna has been the one to say you 2 can't do this and you can't do
that. The only responsibility that I take in the down fall of your
relationship is that at this moment your brother is thinking about what is
fair and just to our relationship. He is wondering why you called but he
wants to hear what you have to say.
Please don't feel the need to iron things out for Shayna and I. Time will
fix what we can't. Shayna and I will never be friends again but certianly
we will find a way to make sure that the family doesn't suffer from mine and
Tim's ill feeling towards her. Right now, your words should be with Tim,
as I will support his decision.
Susan
-----Original Message-----
From: Dunn,John J.
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 9:35 AM
To: 'Cramer, Shayna'; 'Dunn, Susan'
Cc: 'Dunn, Tim'; 'jdunn_41@msn.com'
Subject: Listen up you two
Shayna & Susan,
Having had some time to cool off and time to gather my thoughts it's my feeling that a mediator needs to jump in here and square some things away. Although I would prefer to say this over the phone (or even in person) email is probably the more convenient of the two.
First of all, I don't know what happened, what instigated this whole feud, but it's gotten out of control. Susan, you were mad at Shayna because of some things she said or did. You two hashed it out and that's fine, families are supposed to fight to the death every once in a while. Some things were said that I know for a fact are not true, but that happens. Those words usually do leak out in the heat of the moment when your adrenaline is pumping at an all time high. With that said, apologies are in order from both sides of the fence whether you mean it or not. I know Shay's already apologized, whether or not Susan accepts it is her decision. Same goes for Shayna, it would be nice if Susan apologized (even if she doesn't mean it) and that's Shayna's decision to accept it or not. If we were in person I only know what boys do, say you're sorry and shake hands, not too sure if girls hug or whatever they do, but anyway, you get the idea.
Now we get to the funny part. Shayna you say "I need time to decide if this is what I really want." Susan, I know you try to avoid our mom whenever you can and that's fine, your decision (and don't try and bullshit me on this, I know how it works, I've been doing it for 26 years). Got news for ya gals, Tim and I are brothers. We have the same mom. The translation is this - Shayna, whether you like it or not, Susan will be here as long as Tim is. Susan, when you married Tim you married our family. Our mom's not going anyway anytime soon. And as far as all that goes, time with family is limited. A good example is Aunt Jean, we all know her time left with us is very short. As nagging as she is (for the record the same could be said for you two) you guys and Rick are extremely fortunate to have her at your weddings. Believe it or not, but it breaks my heart that she won't be at mine. Especially after seeing her at the receptions and how she dances in her wheelchair and smiles and shouts out what the bride looks like in the middle of the ceremony. I'm getting away from the subject at hand and that is that you girls are or already did marry the Dunn family. And don't let the family portraits fool ya, it's just as messed up as Springer. And there is no escape, you're screwed.
And here's the bottom line of this, the moral of the story, etc. Susan and Tim, you guys have helped us out a few times - we've helped you guys out a few times. Throw all that away, fine. You two can hate each other, Tim & I will still go out to happy hour and be late to wherever it is you're dragging us. Just because you guys don't get along doesn't mean we'll stop being brothers. Furthermore, I like to think that you two can get along simply for Tim & I's sake. Or at least act civil around one another.
That is all, choose to reply or not, I'll still be making a call tonight to make sure apologies are made.
p.s. Susan, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but all women are controlling. If you weren't, it's a safe assumption that Tim & I would be in jail right now....or on our way. Do you really think Tim would have finished school had he not met you? Or I would have ever thrown out all the Bud Light boxes had I not met Shayna? Just food for thought.....
John Dunn
i started out as switzerland, but after that email she sent me it's like "oh, ok. you want to put the gloves on bitch?" it sounds like tim & i won't be going to any happy hours in the near future. it sounds like my own brother, who's supposed to be my best man for crying out loud, is against me and doesn't want to be a part of my wedding. see, here's the thing, this is how susan's family acts. her brother, joseph, was pissed at susan or her parents or some bs like that so he decided he wasn't coming to their wedding. well dipshit did show up and was a real jerk to be around the whole weekend. as a matter of fact he wore jeans to the ceremony. oh, and then there's her mom who was mad at susan so she skipped out on their rehearsal. yeah, tim's left the dunn family and moved right on into the rineys. mr & mrs riney.
anyway, has anyone ever heard of the best man bailing 6 weeks before the wedding? it's funny, the whole thing that started this was my bachelor party. couldn't have it on the 27th because that's our anniversary. well apparently to susan it's ok to have tim come first, but shayna can't come first to me. whatever.
but it gets better. i guess at my older brother's bachelor party they were talking smack on shayna and i. fine, that doesn't bother me. well, it does, but not to the point where i'm going to go apeshit on everyone. but it's like this, if you don't like shayna and you're not going to embrace our relationship then don't come to the wedding. it sickens me to think that my own brothers wouldn't be at my wedding.
holy shit. i just had a revelation. at some point saturday tim and i were talking and he said something like "you can get tuxes anywhere." for some reason i'm thinking that topic came up at rick's party and they rolled with it. i know i shouldn't have to justify why i couldn't go to that but i feel like i should. it was more than tuxes. we also had to meet with the rabbi. it sounds like they don't understand that dallas isn't like st. louis where you can just decide to go. throw in appointments that you've made with people that you can't just cancel and reschedule. oh, and there's the fact that it was MY decision not to go. not the controlling and manipulative shayna.
i just don't get it. it all just makes me wonder if my brothers are just people that i'm associated with by blood or if they're actually brothers that care about my well being. and email sucks. i hate actually trying to talk something out over email. i'd call and talk to her, but she's not answering the phone, big surprise.
anyway, more to come after my phone call with tim tonight. chris, i know you don't read this, but don't be too shocked if i call and ask you to be the next best man.
the title of this blog is you think you know someone....
so this morning i write a very diplomatic email to susan and shayna, copying in my brother because i thought everything was cool with us - this is just between the girls and i'm playing dad saying "alright, that's enough bickering. now say you're sorry and shake hands." wrongo mongo. because i'm an asshole, here's the emails in their entirety-
-----Original Message-----
From: Susan Dunn [SMTP:susanelizabethdunn@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:02 PM
To: John.Dunn@CNA.com
Subject: Re: Listen up you two
Let me make some things clear. I don't avoid your mother. I respect her.
She has been NOTHING but good to me and I will always owe her for that. She is someone that I do enjoy being around and she and I were so close before Shayna started running interference.
I won't apologize because I don't believe in doing so when it isn't met. I
would 10 times rather someone say "I'm not sorry" than give a false apology.
As far as John and Tim's relationship goes, that's between you two.
However, Tim and I are family first. As you and Shayna enter a life
together, you will realize that there are times when your family (the two of
you) HAS to come before the greater family. It would be great if the needs
and wants of the 2 always meshed but they. Tim comes absolutely 1st in my
life, above and beyond anyone or anything else.
I am not cooled down yet and what you seem to be saying is that I received a
"false" apology from Shayna. I told everyone yesterday at the begining of
the 2nd round that I didn't want to talk about this anymore. I am a person
who needs time and space to cool down. Tim and I know and respect that about each other. Yesterday, no one was willing to respect that I was way too pissed to have that conversation. Call it avoidance, but really it's
recognizing that I am much better off to have that same conversation and
work out my troubles when my head is clear. Sadly everyone was exposed to a side of me that I am not proud of, a side that everyone has.
I am not controlling. I work very hard to respect Tim and his rights to
make his own decisions. That's why he could go to the brewery, why he put
his brother's bachelor party ahead of our already made decisions and why if
he decides to be any part of your wedding--I will find a way to accept it.
I try very hard to control myself but not others. I don't do the girly
manipulations and I don't appreciate being categorized as such. He finished
school because he wanted to be a good father and husband. I never demanded anything of him. I never even said a word when he was kicked out of school.
I try to always support and respect my husband's decision. He is a grown
man and he already has a mother. For me to be his partner and not boss, I
am required NOT to control him.
The only things that I am sorry for are 1) hurting Ruthanne--she didn't
deserve it and shouldn't have been brought into it by anyone, myself
included 2) draging Tim or anyone else into--my problem is with you and
Shayna and should have remainded as such 3) the anger that lead me to my
hostile disposition--I don't take back anything I said, I wish my delivery
would have commanded respect as yelling and crying never does.
As for the current situation, Tim and I are discussing what we think is best
for us. With a child on the way, we are stronger than ever. I am sorry it
came to this. I always tried to support your relationship (with the
expection of the crazy weekend when I was pregnant and didn't know it and
well, completely out of control). I have loved watching the 2 of you and
yet Shayna has been the one to say you 2 can't do this and you can't do
that. The only responsibility that I take in the down fall of your
relationship is that at this moment your brother is thinking about what is
fair and just to our relationship. He is wondering why you called but he
wants to hear what you have to say.
Please don't feel the need to iron things out for Shayna and I. Time will
fix what we can't. Shayna and I will never be friends again but certianly
we will find a way to make sure that the family doesn't suffer from mine and
Tim's ill feeling towards her. Right now, your words should be with Tim,
as I will support his decision.
Susan
-----Original Message-----
From: Dunn,John J.
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 9:35 AM
To: 'Cramer, Shayna'; 'Dunn, Susan'
Cc: 'Dunn, Tim'; 'jdunn_41@msn.com'
Subject: Listen up you two
Shayna & Susan,
Having had some time to cool off and time to gather my thoughts it's my feeling that a mediator needs to jump in here and square some things away. Although I would prefer to say this over the phone (or even in person) email is probably the more convenient of the two.
First of all, I don't know what happened, what instigated this whole feud, but it's gotten out of control. Susan, you were mad at Shayna because of some things she said or did. You two hashed it out and that's fine, families are supposed to fight to the death every once in a while. Some things were said that I know for a fact are not true, but that happens. Those words usually do leak out in the heat of the moment when your adrenaline is pumping at an all time high. With that said, apologies are in order from both sides of the fence whether you mean it or not. I know Shay's already apologized, whether or not Susan accepts it is her decision. Same goes for Shayna, it would be nice if Susan apologized (even if she doesn't mean it) and that's Shayna's decision to accept it or not. If we were in person I only know what boys do, say you're sorry and shake hands, not too sure if girls hug or whatever they do, but anyway, you get the idea.
Now we get to the funny part. Shayna you say "I need time to decide if this is what I really want." Susan, I know you try to avoid our mom whenever you can and that's fine, your decision (and don't try and bullshit me on this, I know how it works, I've been doing it for 26 years). Got news for ya gals, Tim and I are brothers. We have the same mom. The translation is this - Shayna, whether you like it or not, Susan will be here as long as Tim is. Susan, when you married Tim you married our family. Our mom's not going anyway anytime soon. And as far as all that goes, time with family is limited. A good example is Aunt Jean, we all know her time left with us is very short. As nagging as she is (for the record the same could be said for you two) you guys and Rick are extremely fortunate to have her at your weddings. Believe it or not, but it breaks my heart that she won't be at mine. Especially after seeing her at the receptions and how she dances in her wheelchair and smiles and shouts out what the bride looks like in the middle of the ceremony. I'm getting away from the subject at hand and that is that you girls are or already did marry the Dunn family. And don't let the family portraits fool ya, it's just as messed up as Springer. And there is no escape, you're screwed.
And here's the bottom line of this, the moral of the story, etc. Susan and Tim, you guys have helped us out a few times - we've helped you guys out a few times. Throw all that away, fine. You two can hate each other, Tim & I will still go out to happy hour and be late to wherever it is you're dragging us. Just because you guys don't get along doesn't mean we'll stop being brothers. Furthermore, I like to think that you two can get along simply for Tim & I's sake. Or at least act civil around one another.
That is all, choose to reply or not, I'll still be making a call tonight to make sure apologies are made.
p.s. Susan, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but all women are controlling. If you weren't, it's a safe assumption that Tim & I would be in jail right now....or on our way. Do you really think Tim would have finished school had he not met you? Or I would have ever thrown out all the Bud Light boxes had I not met Shayna? Just food for thought.....
John Dunn
i started out as switzerland, but after that email she sent me it's like "oh, ok. you want to put the gloves on bitch?" it sounds like tim & i won't be going to any happy hours in the near future. it sounds like my own brother, who's supposed to be my best man for crying out loud, is against me and doesn't want to be a part of my wedding. see, here's the thing, this is how susan's family acts. her brother, joseph, was pissed at susan or her parents or some bs like that so he decided he wasn't coming to their wedding. well dipshit did show up and was a real jerk to be around the whole weekend. as a matter of fact he wore jeans to the ceremony. oh, and then there's her mom who was mad at susan so she skipped out on their rehearsal. yeah, tim's left the dunn family and moved right on into the rineys. mr & mrs riney.
anyway, has anyone ever heard of the best man bailing 6 weeks before the wedding? it's funny, the whole thing that started this was my bachelor party. couldn't have it on the 27th because that's our anniversary. well apparently to susan it's ok to have tim come first, but shayna can't come first to me. whatever.
but it gets better. i guess at my older brother's bachelor party they were talking smack on shayna and i. fine, that doesn't bother me. well, it does, but not to the point where i'm going to go apeshit on everyone. but it's like this, if you don't like shayna and you're not going to embrace our relationship then don't come to the wedding. it sickens me to think that my own brothers wouldn't be at my wedding.
holy shit. i just had a revelation. at some point saturday tim and i were talking and he said something like "you can get tuxes anywhere." for some reason i'm thinking that topic came up at rick's party and they rolled with it. i know i shouldn't have to justify why i couldn't go to that but i feel like i should. it was more than tuxes. we also had to meet with the rabbi. it sounds like they don't understand that dallas isn't like st. louis where you can just decide to go. throw in appointments that you've made with people that you can't just cancel and reschedule. oh, and there's the fact that it was MY decision not to go. not the controlling and manipulative shayna.
i just don't get it. it all just makes me wonder if my brothers are just people that i'm associated with by blood or if they're actually brothers that care about my well being. and email sucks. i hate actually trying to talk something out over email. i'd call and talk to her, but she's not answering the phone, big surprise.
anyway, more to come after my phone call with tim tonight. chris, i know you don't read this, but don't be too shocked if i call and ask you to be the next best man.
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